Curse

wiz12268 · Jul 04, 2009, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Yeah but you're not going to get a Silverwing Recurve Bow from killing The Scar Eater. The Zaishen quests are supplemental to the reward that you would inherently receive from completing a task. If I kill The Scar Eater, the absolute best thing I could get is an elite Monk tome worth about 7k. If I go through Frostmaw's to kill the end boss, I've seen countless chests to open, countless bosses to kill for greens or e-tomes, and probably filled up my inventory on the way, that on top of the fact that a more difficult instance will (and in the example, definitely does) have some rewards possible that easily break the 100k mark.

Sure, killing a boss close to a town with no difficulty is easier and perhaps more time efficient strictly looking at the Zaishen rewards, but for the overall rewards you're getting a better time/money making opportunity in general with the addition of the Zaishen reward when you complete more difficult quests.

You can do the hardmodes dungeons WITHOUT the z challenge and get the same oppurtunities you mentioned. The Z coins are supposed to be a little something extra or a little extra inscentive because a lot of people don't randomly do those dungeons/missions/bosses. Also not all the Z challenges have drops like that or even chests. So there goes half your argument right there.

But it isn't really about the money or what you MIGHT get. Hell I left the game 3 years ago or so, came back and lost about 60% of my net worth because Ectos used to trade for 12k now sell for 4300 if your lucky. So money isn't the end all be all of this game. It MIGHT be a shiney item that mght take some money/ectos to get, but there aren't too many things in the game that most guys who used to farm back in the day can't afford. I think I have just under 1500 ectos, not to mention over 500 but less than a thousand rubies, shards, and sapphires, not sure if anything in the game is worth that much now or not. But if it is who really wants it anyway? 99% of the people aren't going to recognize some uber weapon you spent all that money on, or if they do do they realy care? And if you H/H most of the time who sees it? And the guys in PvP have more important things to worry about than checking out people's gear.

But money isn't the point, money is EASY to make. Coins aren't they aren't tradeable and the only way to get them is in the challenges. it also isn't even the "worth' of the items you get, it is the actually accomplishment of earning it yourself. I could hvae bought 4 or 5 20 slot bags by now if I wanted to spend a million gold, but much better to spend a couple months and getting the coins and 'earning' them yourselves.

shoyon456 · Jul 04, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

It was a good attempt, but I agree that the rewards often do not match the difficulty of the bounty/mission.

And yes, everyone's already done them. GW's been stale for a long time now. There's nothing they can do about it except show us some GW2 crap...which they wont.

EDIT: Yes, they are supposed to be just a little incentive so that if you're going to do the dungeon/mission/quest, you can get a little reward for it. However most ppl have already done everything in NM and HM in gw, making it kind of ironic.

Longasc · Jul 04, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Pugging for these missions is already on the decline. Basically, the same guys that really need someone to pull them through are looking for other players.
People collect the easy, fast and high reward missions and do them over the course of the week.

The number of missions seems also to be quite limited, there are quite a few Prophecies/NF/Faction missions that are not part of the rotation.

The amazing reward is still a bag. :>

MisterB · Jul 04, 2009, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

The number of missions seems also to be quite limited, there are quite a few Prophecies/NF/Faction missions that are not part of the rotation.

Other than challenge missions, which are excluded? They seem to include all the primary missions.

Kumu Honua · Jul 04, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Other than challenge missions, which are excluded? They seem to include all the primary missions.

Another problem is that the rotation got fubared in a patch a while back and we have had repeats where we should have had plenty left for the rotation before any repeats.

Zaishen Quests are not required. You can pick and choose what to do. Only when you feel that you MUST complete them are they an issue, and that issue is yours alone.

I've deleted many of the quests because I didn't feel like it. I did Frostmaw the first time it was given because I hadn't gone there in a while, the second time I deleted the mission as I had no desire to do it again so soon.

It's all up to you. They are completely optional.

Euphemism · Jul 04, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I do the zquests for the rep points, and the coins are just a bonus. No need to do them in hard mode for that! As long as we're complaining about unfair rewards, can we get extra rep points for hard mode completion?

Kendel · Jul 05, 2009, 01:28 AM // 01:28

I'm just getting sick of seeing repeated quests. Seriously Anet, sort your game out. The complete lack of attenion to the repeats of quests isn't exactly giving off the right impression.

mage767 · Jul 05, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

So, basically, the playerbase is asking for the following fixes:

1. HM zmish/dungeons in factions/EoTN need to hand out better faction points for HM.
2. Coin rewards need to be scaled based on the bounty/mission difficulty.
3. Z-challenges should include newer bounties and missions.

Did I miss anything else?

Esprit · Jul 05, 2009, 03:43 AM // 03:43

This is how I read the OP's post:

"Dear Anet,

Please put an everlasting fireworks in my inventory for the next update, and also a stack or two of gold zaishen coins.

Thanks,
Lazy and Greedy Player #203948"

To not sound too trollish, I think FengShui summarized it nicely, that while the Z-reward may be the same across the board for certain dungeons, it's the drop potential that makes a difference. Plus, I know that these z-quests has increased guild and alliance activity, so the rewards are a nice bonus to the fact that there are people to play with again.

wiz12268 · Jul 05, 2009, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

This is how I read the OP's post:

"Dear Anet,

Please put an everlasting fireworks in my inventory for the next update, and also a stack or two of gold zaishen coins.

Thanks,
Lazy and Greedy Player #203948"

To not sound too trollish, I think FengShui summarized it nicely, that while the Z-reward may be the same across the board for certain dungeons, it's the drop potential that makes a difference. Plus, I know that these z-quests has increased guild and alliance activity, so the rewards are a nice bonus to the fact that there are people to play with again.

Actually i have no interest in the firework, i just want the bags since i don't feel like spending 10 bux (real money) per storage panel.

As far as people playing, there haven't been any major updates to this game in over 3 years, the fact that as many people still play it as they do says a lot. But it is free and peopel always have it taking up space on their computers I am sure. I left for almost 3 years myself and come back every now and then again. But with no new additions there isn't too much people haven't done that they want to. These quests are just supposed to be something diferent.

Either way today was an easy mission with nornbear taking maybe 15 minutes to do in hardmode, while the bounty is over an hour in normal mode, so only did that once since it was only worht 40 coins. But that is the point of my post. Nornbear takes 15-20 minutes in hard mode, you kill about 40 mobs total and you get 105 coins. So pick and choose to be sure. So it is basically a lottery with these things, hoping you have them all open and then hoping they aren't too time consuming.

Freeze_XJ · Jul 05, 2009, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Well, things are easy with these quests.. Go PvP, learn to play, and somehow magically get into a good HA team. Get 350 Zoins per time you reach HoH (not even win it), rinse and repeat. 60% of the Zoins is for PvP, that's the idea behind em as well. Getting PvE players over to the people-killing. If you prefer PvE still : go farm there, pay up those plats for your bag, and continue your life.

Gun Pierson · Jul 05, 2009, 07:22 AM // 07:22

If you just want the bag, I can recommend to just buy it and don't look back. You can find one for 40-50 ectos these days. Best investment I did in a long time.

FengShuiDove · Jul 05, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiz12268

You can do the hardmodes dungeons WITHOUT the z challenge and get the same oppurtunities you mentioned. The Z coins are supposed to be a little something extra or a little extra inscentive because a lot of people don't randomly do those dungeons/missions/bosses. Also not all the Z challenges have drops like that or even chests. So there goes half your argument right there.

No, that's the whole point. The Zaishen stuff encourages you to do things you wouldn't ordinarily pick up and do. If I get 140 Zoins and a chance at an Elite Tome for 5 minutes of work, I'm more likely to do it than I would have been for just the Elite Tome. Likewise, if I get 140 Zoins and a chance at an Emerald Blade for 1.5 hours of work, I'm more likely to do it than I would have been for the Kathandrax chest open by itself. That's what supplemental means.

If you're simply farming for highest Zoins/hr, then of course you're not going to consider the supplemental nature of the Zaishen rewards on longer or more difficult bounties/missions. If you're playing for the most cash/hr, opportunity/hr, or a more generally diverse playing experience, you'll entertain the notion of doing the longer/harder quests.

Look at it this way, if you go to a store and there's a "Buy one, get xxx free" offer, you're very interested even if you aren't highly considering the product. That would be like a boss. Very easy terms with very high matching per your input. If you go to a store and there's a "Buy three, get xxx free" offer, you'd be less interested in the bonus payoff unless you were already considering buying a set of whatever you're looking at. Is the supplemental bonus sufficient to justify the initial purchase? That depends on a number of factors including what items you're after and how badly you want the bonuses.

wiz12268 · Jul 05, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

No, that's the whole point. The Zaishen stuff encourages you to do things you wouldn't ordinarily pick up and do. If I get 140 Zoins and a chance at an Elite Tome for 5 minutes of work, I'm more likely to do it than I would have been for just the Elite Tome. Likewise, if I get 140 Zoins and a chance at an Emerald Blade for 1.5 hours of work, I'm more likely to do it than I would have been for the Kathandrax chest open by itself. That's what supplemental means.

If you're simply farming for highest Zoins/hr, then of course you're not going to consider the supplemental nature of the Zaishen rewards on longer or more difficult bounties/missions. If you're playing for the most cash/hr, opportunity/hr, or a more generally diverse playing experience, you'll entertain the notion of doing the longer/harder quests.

Look at it this way, if you go to a store and there's a "Buy one, get xxx free" offer, you're very interested even if you aren't highly considering the product. That would be like a boss. Very easy terms with very high matching per your input. If you go to a store and there's a "Buy three, get xxx free" offer, you'd be less interested in the bonus payoff unless you were already considering buying a set of whatever you're looking at. Is the supplemental bonus sufficient to justify the initial purchase? That depends on a number of factors including what items you're after and how badly you want the bonuses.

Maybe I think too logically, but to me if I want a chance at a chest drop I do the dungeon in hardmode regardless, just because it happens to offer 140 or so z coins isn't really enough inscentive to MAKE me want to do it when I don't feel like it. In other words, if I felt like doing one of those hard modes I would and have regardless of any extra inscentives added. BUT, I did the norn bear on all 6 toons it was available to yesterday simpley because it took me less than an hour to get 630 coins.

The chest rewards and possible boss drops are enough inscentive for the ones that take 2 or 3 hours to complete, adding 140 coins (the same as ANY bounty quests pretty much) isn't going to outwiegh the difficulty factor, that was the whole point of my OP, and since you can only have 3 active at a time you can't save them up until you feel like doing them.

The only thing it really does is fill those place with a mass of people (who usually aren't or weren't) good enough to do them H/H in the first place so it gives them an oppurtunity to clean up some of their odds and ends. So it helps serve some purpose for some people I suppose. Plus like I said it give farm build runners good business once in awhile.

But like I said, Nornbear offered 105 coins in hard mode yesterday, took 15 maybe 20 minutes if you had bad heroes gear to do. Day before forgewight takes 70-80 minutes in normal mode, 90-who knows if you get a couple bad pulls or a wipe or two in hardmode, and a lot of people can't do him in hardmode H/H, which also means they aren't very likely to do him in a group of live players hard mode either. And he was worth 140 coins. Now, had he been worth 300 or maybe 400 coins then I MIGHT have bothered to do him, but surely not for 140, and 40 as a base for normal mode is just ridiculous.

Same as with the mission in Nightfall that require at least 2 live people, because you can't take henchies, usually not worth the effort, and surely not worth the coins they offer. Which are dependant upon if you get masters or not to max out. Again, if the whole point was to get people to do them offer big rewards for the ones that take a lot of effort. Because to me that is their whole point, to get people to look at and maybe see content they might not do otherwise. Because I bet a lot of people haven't been to Duncan let alone killed him, and same goes for some of the places in Nightfall. So they probably need alitle more inscentive that others do, and like I said, thinking logically 140 coins isn't enough, when you can H/H other stuff in a fraction of the time for the same amount, regardless of whther you have seen THAt content a thousand times or not. it is still easier, thus makes more sense to do to them.

Longasc · Jul 05, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Other than challenge missions, which are excluded? They seem to include all the primary missions.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zaishen_Quests

Definitely not.

HawkofStorms · Jul 05, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Ummm just because not everything has happened yet Longasc, doesn't mean it won't.

FengShuiDove · Jul 05, 2009, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiz12268

-snip-

*sigh*

You're still not getting it. "Thinking too logically" does not equal considering only your opinion and not the overall design mechanic of the rewards. The additional 140 Zoins for a difficult dungeon may not be a selling point to you, but they may be to someone who was intending on doing Frostmaw's someday but needed a little extra motivation. Would you have done Nornbear nine times in a day if you didn't have the extra incentive? I seriously doubt it. It's not about what you think is enough or not enough. Sure, I expect far fewer people to do Duncan the Black bounty than Assault on the Stronghold, but that doesn't mean the rewards are unfair. You have to look at the greater picture. As I already said, if you're interested strictly in the Zoins, do only the quests with a high Zaishen reward per time invested.

Believe it or not, there are other things to do and other reasons to play than gathering Zoins. You seem to ignore that fact.

Kumu Honua · Jul 05, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zaishen_Quests

Definitely not.

Err, the fact that there are repeats are a function of a bug that occurred. One they have acknowledged. It's not fixed, but there are new missions/bounties being given out.

The "Cycle" is not finished. Can't say the pool is shallow when it's still being filled.

seut · Jul 05, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zaishen_Quests

Definitely not.

Prophecies:
- The Great Northern Wall
- D'Alessio Seaboard
- Bloodstone Fen
- Augury Rock
- Ice Caves of Sorrow
- Abaddon's Mouth

Factions
- Imperial Sanctum

Nightfall
- Pogahn Passage
- Rilohn Refuge
- Gate of Desolation
- Abaddon's Gate

EotN
- Warband of Brothers
- A Time for Heroes

only 13/69 missing and those should be available during the next months too, if they don't accidently wipe their check lists again

Targren · Jul 06, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

Prophecies:
Factions
- Imperial Sanctum

Nightfall
- Abaddon's Gate

I'm wondering if we'll ever see those as Zmissions. I honestly think, given the content of those two missions, they're more likely to be bounties (go in, kill boss fast, done)